THE FLOWER MOUND PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON THE 9th DAY OF FEBRUARY, 2004, IN THE FLOWER MOUND TOWN HALL, LOCATED AT 2121 CROSS TIMBERS ROAD IN THE TOWN OF FLOWER MOUND, COUNTY OF DENTON, TEXAS, AT 6:30 P.M.
The Planning & Zoning Commission met in a regular session with the following members present:
Nick Hollingshad Chairman
Ellen Pourzan Vice Chairperson
Noelle Depperschmidt Commissioner
John Martin Commissioner
Dennis McKaige Commissioner
Thomas Goss Commissioner
Karl Drescher Commissioner
constituting a quorum. The following alternate members of the Planning & Zoning Commission were in the audience:
Arthur McDevitt 1st Alternate
Michael Walker 2nd Alternate
with the following members of the Town Staff participating:
Cindy Travis Town Council Representative
Ed Voss, Jr. Town Attorney
Doug Powell Assistant Executive Director, Dev. & Env. Svcs.
Tim James Assistant Town Engineer
Jerry Bonner Fire Marshal
Lisa Duello Director, Environmental Health Services
Tommy Dalton Planner
Sally Byrd Administrative Secretary
Kathy Burris, Code Enforcement Officer was in the audience.
Chairman Hollingshad called the regular session of the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting to order at 6:30 p.m.
B. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Depperschmidt gave the Invocation, and Commissioner Martin led the Pledge of Allegiance.
C. CITIZENS/VISITORS COMMENTS TO THE COMMISSION
Chairman Hollingshad explained that the Citizen's Comments portion of the agenda is for discussion limited to those issues that are not listed under the Public Hearing portion of the agenda.
None
D. COMMISSION MEMBER'S ANNOUNCEMENTS AND ITEMS
None
E. DIRECTOR'S REPORT
Doug Powell, Assistant Executive Director, Development and Environmental Services
Good evening Mr. Chairman, Commissioners; to catch you up to date with the action of Town Council, if you remember at your last meeting or two meetings ago, there were quite a few items that went forward. The Town Council adopted the amendments to SPA 1. They also approved the SUP for the Wedding Chapel, the Granite master sign proposal, and then Dr. Duffy as you remember, had a couple of items; the Master Plan Amendment and the rezoning. On Dr. Duffy, we worked with the applicant, who talked to the adjacent neighbors, and we think that the landscaping issue has been worked out. Everyone knows that it is coming back for a Site Plan, and the minutes indicate that you all are interested in looking at that. We think that we did make, they did make some progress, and we think that when it comes back to you, it will be de-void of that issue.
I also wanted to point out, although you have minutes in your backup, we are running a meeting behind. I hope you will all understand and give us some leeway. When the meetings go past midnight, it is very hard to turn those back around. We are working on them, and will have those out to you for your review, before the next packet. However, it does take a little bit longer, with those longer meetings.
In terms of upcoming items, my intention is to place parking standards, I know that is of interest to you all, on your next meeting. Your next meeting only has two items, so you have come through a couple of meetings where there have been long agendas; tonights shouldn't be that long. That is all I had sir.
Chairman Hollingshad: On the major Council items, were there any other changes to what we sent forward, or modifications.
Mr. Powell: No, other than on the Wedding Chapel. We had recommended hours of operation, basically because the applicant had indicated that there were restrictions that she was willing to live with. The Town Council, I believe, thought that it was inappropriate to place those restrictions as a part of the SUP. Of course, they will be covered by the TABC regulations. There was a lot of discussion about that SUP, or that application, specifically because of the school and whether or not a school would be built. Also, the notice for the neighborhood, there is really only one property owner that was within 200', but as we do, we notified the adjacent Homeowners Association. We did not find out until late that the notice, unfortunately in this case, that gentleman was in an accident and passed away the day after Christmas. We think that led somewhat to the neighborhood in general not knowing or understanding that the SUP was going through and going forward. I think that complicated the issue a little bit, but again, there was a lot of discussion on that. There was a lot of discussion about SPA 1, it was adopted as recommended. With Dr. Duffy, there were the same concerns about coming back forward through the site plan, but it was approved as proposed.
Chairman Hollingshad: Thank you Doug, we will move on to the Consent Agenda.
F. CONSENT AGENDA
This agenda consists of non-controversial or "housekeeping" items and may be approved with a single motion. A member of the Planning and Zoning Commission may request an item(s) be withdrawn from the Consent Agenda and moved to regular agenda for discussion by making such request prior to a motion and vote on the Consent Agenda. Consent agenda items shall be approved as presented.
Chairman Hollingshad read Item 1 on the Consent Agenda.
Commissioner Martin made a motion to approve by consent, Item 1. Vice Chairperson Pourzan seconded the motion. The item, as approved by consent, is restated below along with the approved recommendation for the record.
1. Consider approval of the minutes of the January 12, 2004, Planning and Zoning Commission regular session.
RECOMMENDATION: Approve the minutes from a regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission held on January 12, 2004.
VOTE ON THE MOTION
AYES: Depperschmidt, Martin, McKaige, Pourzan, Drescher
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: Goss
ABSENT: None
G. REGULAR ITEMS
2. (SUP 285-04) Public Hearing to consider approval of a request from Sonoma Restaurant Group, Inc., for a Specific Use Permit for Z Grill and Tap. Specifically, the request is for a Private Club to allow for on-premise consumption of alcoholic beverages on approximately .11 acres of land located on Lot 5R, Block 1, of the Barnett Lane Addition (Marketplace Shopping Center). The property, zoned Planned Development District 12 (PD-12) with Retail District 2 (R-2) uses, is generally located on the southwest corner of Cross Timbers Road (FM 1171) and Morriss Road and more commonly known as 2321 Cross Timbers Road, Suite 413.
Applicant's Presentation
Tommy Dalton, Planner
Thank you Chairman, Commissioners; my name is Thomas Dalton, Planner on staff with the Town of Flower Mound. At this time, I would like to invite Joel Rich to speak on the Applicant's behalf. Staff's presentation will follow.
Joel Rich, Sonoma Restaurant Group, Inc.
Good evening, I have previously represented Sonoma Grill, I know these people personally. They intend that this restaurant will provide a more casual atmosphere than the Sonoma Grill presently does, which is primarily a Mediterranean cuisine. This will be mostly American cuisine. It will have approximately the same hours; it will open about 11:00 a.m. during the week and close at around 9:00 p.m. On Friday and Saturday, it will close about 11:00 p.m. It will, under the TABC private club provision, allow for alcohol service, and consumption on the premises. I feel very strongly that they are intending to attract a lunch crowd, so during the day, not too much alcohol will be consumed. In the evening a more casual dining affair for people to come. Does anybody have any questions?
Questions and Answers
Commissioner Martin: I'm just curious what your scheduled opening date is.
Mr. Rich: I'm sorry?
Commissioner Martin: Your scheduled date of opening?
Mr. Rich: I have not actually been informed. The interior does need refurbishing, so to speak. They intend to add some tile where there has been some carpet and they will repaint. The kitchen area, some of the equipment was removed by the former tenant and they are going to have to replace that, so I do not at this point have an actual date. Obviously, they will move as soon as possible. They do have the funding and they will move quickly, so that is about the best I can do for that.
Chairman Hollingshad: Are there any other questions for the applicant?
Alternate Member McDevitt: I have a question from the sidelines here, if you don't mind.
Chairman Hollingshad: Please do.
Mr. Rich: Sure.
Alternate Member McDevitt: With the name "Tap," as in the name of the restaurant, do you plan to do any brewing of beer on site?
Mr. Rich: No, it will not involve any brewing. I think almost all of the alcohol will be in bottles, and there is the possibility of a draft tap at the bar, but I don't think they will do any brewing at all, none.
Chairman Hollingshad: Are there any other questions? Thank you Mr. Rich.
Mr. Rich: Thank you, thank you.
Staff Presentation
Tommy Dalton, Planner
This application is for a Specific Use Permit for on-premise sales and consumption of alcoholic beverages. Location is, right there, this is the Winn Dixie Shopping Center, and it is outlined there in red. The Future Land Use has it marked as Specific Plan Area 1. The retail is an appropriate use at this location, and the current zoning is R-2. Are there any questions for staff?
Questions and Answers
Chairman Hollingshad: Are there any questions?
Mr. Dalton: Staff recommends approval as outlined in Item 4 of your packet.
Open Public Hearing
Questions and Answers None
In Favor None
In Opposition None
Close Public Hearing
Commission Deliberation
Commissioner Martin: I really don't have anything to deliberate other than having visited the Sonoma Grill on several occasions. I've been very impressed with the way they run their ship. I think they have done a great job, and welcome them to another adventure, or venture I should say, in Flower Mound, we hope it's not going to be an adventure. This is a good thing. I think they have done a fine job there and it is a nice place to, Sonoma has been a great place to take people for dinner and lunch every once in a while. I'm looking forward to another place to do that, with fine management.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I would just like to say the same thing. My daughter will be happy, her favorite restaurant in Flower Mound is Sonoma Grill, so she will be excited about this.
Chairman Hollingshad: Does anyone else have anything? Perhaps maybe a motion.
Commissioner McKaige moved to recommend approval of SUP 285-04 for a Specific Use Permit for Z Grill and Tap. Specifically, the request is for a Private Club to allow for on-premise consumption of alcoholic beverages on approximately .11 acres of land located on Lot 5R, Block 1, of the Barnett Lane Addition (Marketplace Shopping Center). The property, zoned Planned Development District 12 (PD-12) with Retail District 2 (R-2) uses, is generally located on the southwest corner of Cross Timbers Road (FM 1171) and Morriss Road, and more commonly known as 2321 Cross Timbers Road, Suite 413, subject to the following conditions:
1. The Specific Use Permit granted herein is specific to Sonoma Restaurant Group, Inc., dba Z Grill & Tap, at the location stated herein and shall not be transferred to any other person or entity or any other location without the approval of the Town Council.
2. The attached site plan, labeled "Attachment 2," shall be an exhibit to the Specific Use Permit.
3. If a certificate of occupancy application has not been submitted to the Town's Building Inspection Division for consideration within six months of approval of the ordinance, the zoning for this property, including the Specific Use Permit described herein, will be a matter that will be automatically placed upon a subsequent Planning and Zoning Commission agenda for consideration as a Town-initiated zoning change under normal zoning amendment procedures.
Commissioner Depperschmidt seconded the motion.
Discussion on the Motion
Chairman Hollingshad: The motion has been made by Commissioner McKaige with a second by Commissioner Depperschmidt, is there any discussion of the motion?
Commissioner Martin: Only that, wondering if the Applicant had, if we could get a conformation that he understood the conditions.
Mr. Rich: Yes.
Chairman Hollingshad: We will let the record show that the Applicant understands and accepts the conditions to the motion. Anything else? Sally would you please call the roll?
VOTE ON THE MOTION
AYES: Drescher, Goss, Pourzan, McKaige, Martin, Depperschmidt
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
3. (ZPD-11-03) Public Hearing to consider an amendment to Exhibit "B," Development Standards of PD-24, Planned Development District No. 24, adopting new sign standards for Parker Square by replacing the "Parker Square Signage Standards, August 23, 1999" with the "Parker Square Sign Standards 2004." The property, being a 24.56-acre tract of land in the Parker Square Addition, is generally located north of Cross Timbers Road/FM 1171 and west of Timber Creek Road.
Staff Introduction
Lisa Duello, Director, Environmental Health Services
Good evening Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, Lisa Duello, Director of Environmental Health Services. As you may recall, this item was brought forward to previously scheduled meetings in the fall of 2003 for consideration. It was tabled, and then finally was expired due to some unresolved issues. I think we have those issues resolved, and we now have this before you. I want to note a couple of things before I introduce our applicant. At the last Public Hearing, notices generated some responses from a few Citizens about the project directory signs. I know we haven't gone over those yet but I just wanted to point those out. The Citizens were concerned about the size of those signs, however, staff believes the size of those signs are appropriate, and in proportion to the development. With this last Public Hearing notice, we received some comment back from the Rustic Timbers HOA President. I spoke with him on Friday and went over the whole packet, and he had no concerns. He thought that it looked like a good proposal. I just wanted to bring that to your attention. With that, I would like to introduce Rob Baldwin who is representing the applicant, Parker Properties. He will go over the proposal that they have tonight.
Applicant's Presentation
Robert Baldwin, 1445 Ross Avenue, Dallas, representing 5-Star Development
Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Robert Baldwin, my address is 1445 Ross Avenue in Dallas. I am here representing 5-Star Development. Parker Square Sign Standards, as Lisa said, this is a revision from the sign standards we worked out in 1999. Commissioner Martin, I think you were involved with the original ones; you were on the Board closely after that. I'll go through my spiel, then I have a full presentation showing every change we are proposing, or I can answer questions, however you like. Let me just give a little background on how we got to where we are, then you can tell me how you want me to proceed. As you know, Parker Square is different from most shopping centers in Flower Mound. It is designed to be pedestrian oriented. The major parking areas are in the back, and the retail is in the front towards the gazebo. The offices are towards the back. Unless you get there early, people going to the retail facilities park in the back and have to walk through. What we are doing is putting in directional signs that say if you are going to this store, here is how you get there. Since Parker Square is different, and since we are a part of a PD, we have asked that our sign standards be a separate packet that goes right with our PD. A lot of our signs mirror what the Town's current regulations are, but a lot of them are different. We have hired this gentleman named, Jim Doussard, who has been with this project since its inception. His whole job in life is to make sign packages. He has done signs for Disney World Celebration, Disney's neo-traditional village down in Florida, as well as many other significant developments around the country. He is our graphic representative. All signs, before they are approved in Parker Square, go to Mr. Doussard for review. He makes sure they make sense, and makes sure they comply with the standards. He then sends a note to Kathy Burris and says this sign meets our criteria; you can approve it if it meets the Towns. It use to be that any tenant would have to come in and pay for that service, and one of the changes that we have made is, now 5-Star Development pays to have signs reviewed by Mr. Doussard. There are three different types of signs that we will talk about tonight; one is project signs that identify Parker Square as a shopping center. Project signs include directional signs and basic identification. The second type is office signs, and the third are retail signage. The sign standards have been designed to make sure that the signs do their purpose of informing people of either where to go or where they are, at the same time trying to make sure that nothing is garish, nothing is too visible from FM 1171. You will see that most of these signs are only visible from inside the shopping center. They detail the size, location, appearance, and how they are constructed. I'll be glad to either go through the complete list of everything that has changed, or just give you the highlights in each section, if you would like to do that.
Chairman Hollingshad: Why don't you go with the highlights and we will bore in if something peaks our interest.
Mr. Baldwin: Again this is just a fine tuning, the packet looks like we have done a lot but really, this is just a fine tuning based on our tenants who have been in there four or five years, and they are saying if you could do this it would really help our business. One thing you will notice about Parker Square, none of our tenants are national chains and we need to help them be visible and express what they do. People drive by, they know what a Starbucks is, but they don't always know what the local restaurants are. The project signs are there to identify; help vehicles fine their way and serve as regulatory, you know, here is where you turn. The big thing that has changed is originally we had a statue of Daniel Parker, who no one knows, a big bronze statue. He was going to be out in front of the gazebo and everybody was going to drive by and say, "Parker," this must be Parker Square. That didn't quite work out, so our new sign is a standard masonry monument sign, 18' x 6'. The brick's going to match the brick that is out there and it is proposed to be located at the end of the terminus of...there is the gazebo, one tree will have to be relocated for that. We can do that with a minor site plan amendment. We will just plant somewhere else along FM 1171. We have to relocate a storm sewer drain that is located about right there, and will work with the engineering department to make sure that clearances are made. This is going to be the primary sign that lets people know they are at Parker Square.
The other signs that you will see are the project directory signs; on one side is a map of Parker Square, the other side lists something that is going on at Parker Square, either a sale or a special event that is happening. We are proposing those for eight locations throughout the center. The locations are shown in detail in your book, they will be approved in conjunction with Town staff to make sure that we are out of any visibility triangles, and that they are not in awkward locations. Right now, all the addresses are up top. People can't or don't seem to look that far up, so we are asking that the address signs either be placed up on the top or in the middle of the building. The next three signs all will be placed on FM 1171 in nicely milled, they are made out of wood, to be set on cement footings. One will announce special events that are occurring at Parker Square, which we have a lot of; one will be "Coming Soon", one will be "Grand Opening". They are all basically the same, placed in different locations. The panels will be professionally made and popped out as a whole, so if you are having an ice cream social, that goes in. It can go up three weeks before the event, and has to come down three days after the event is over. They will be two sided, so you can see it coming from the east or the west. The proposed location for this is the main driveway leading into Parker Square, where the light is. This is proposed to be just north of that on Parker Square property. It will be in there amongst the trees. It won't look, the way they are set between the trees and the banners, it is not like you will be driving down the street and these will be jumping out at you. You will be able to see them but they are going to be camouflaged, if that makes sense.
Commissioner Goss: Is this a permanent installation?
Mr. Baldwin: It is a permanent installation. I think I was told they are going to weigh about 600 pounds, the wood, but the actual faces will come out when you are not having a special event or there won't be, it will just be green when you go by it, when there is not an event going on. The second is the "Coming Soon" sign, like the special event sign, this goes up thirty days before the grand opening and has to be taken down three days afterwards. Each store is allowed one time to have a "Grand Opening" sign or the "Coming Soon" sign, and the proposed location for this is south of the gazebo, right north of the southern driveway. You will be able to see it because the tree trunks are up high, or the foliage is up high enough to see it. The third is the "Grand Opening" sign. Again, you can have it up for thirty days before the grand opening and then three days afterwards it has to come down. Again, the panels pop out when there are no grand openings, it will just be green. This is proposed to be just south of the main entrance. Now to top this all off we have temporary banners that will be tied onto the gazebo, one facing east, and one facing west. Again, these have to be professionally made, they have to be approved by our graphic representative and they can for up three weeks before the event and has to come down three days afterwards. Sign "O", this is the only sign that we are in disagreement with staff. Staff is not keen on sandwich boards. We like them, they are 3' wide, 4' tall maximum, and we feel there is plenty of room on our sidewalks. Our sidewalks in Parker Square are 13' wide, even with one of these outside of a building; there is still 10' to get around it. Our representative has used these in all the projects he does, it gives the projects an urban feel, it helps people know what is on the menu, kind of makes it a more pedestrian friendly place. If you go to any large city with pedestrian areas, you will see sandwich boards. We think they make sense, we think they are safe, we hope that you will consider them appropriate for Parker Square. Inflatable signs; you never know when you will need a big ice cream cone out front. These match the Town's sign schedule, right now these are allowed. They weren't in our ordinance; we find that at some point, we may want to have them for our Christmas special. Correct me if I'm wrong Kathy, 30 days they can stay up? Fourteen days?
(in-audible from audience)
Mr. Baldwin: It is the Town's regulation.
(in-audible from audience)
Mr. Baldwin: 30 days? Yes, wait - 14 days?
Ms. Duello: The language that you see in the standards is the exact language from our ordinance.
Mr. Baldwin: Okay, that is all for the project signs. Do you have any questions about what we are proposing for the projects?
Questions and Answers
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I guess I'm a little concerned about one point that you made on the permanent signs, the ones on the road, that you can take things off. They are going to be wood. I have a concern about are you going to have some type of fund so that when the signs start deteriorating, are you going to go back and maintain those signs.
Mr. Baldwin: Yes, 5-Star Development has offices on site. They have in my opinion have done a very good job of maintaining Parker Square. Kathy, will have to give permits to put these signs in, and so if she sees that there are any problems with the frames, she can let us know and we will take care of it. We don't want anything that looks bad or anything that is unsafe.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: What material is the pop out part, portion...
Mr. Baldwin: It's like a hard plastic, a Lucite probably, so it is probably about this thick and...
Commissioner Depperschmidt: ...hard to puncture and...
Mr. Baldwin: Yea...
Commissioner Depperschmidt: ...by any kind of weather or...
Mr. Baldwin: ...exactly, it won't fade.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Okay.
Commissioner Martin: So every time you put in a new pop out, so to speak, you have to get another permit?
Mr. Baldwin: Well I think there will be some that every year will have the, I think there is a Halloween, and a Christmas, and some of those, but for new buildings we will have to get new ones made, for new tenants, grand openings.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: What's the turn around, how fast can you get them?
Mr. Baldwin: To be honest with you I don't know. Fast Signs, I would think they could do it pretty quickly.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: What materials are the sandwich signs made of?
Mr. Baldwin: It would be wood.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: How heavy? I mean is it...
Mr. Baldwin: It is a four by eight sheet of plywood that weighs about 20 pounds, so they would be about 20 pounds.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Okay, and the business owner would be responsible for taking - and if it was a gusty day.
Mr. Baldwin: It would have to come in every night, and there was concern about it being blown over, we could make sure that there was language in here that it is anchored with sand bags or something.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Okay, but it would be up to the particular proprietor to take in and out...
Mr. Baldwin: Yes.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: ...and each one would be allowed or maybe two or three stores could have one or...
Mr. Baldwin: Each would be allowed, they way it is written now is each one would be allowed two. My sense is the restaurants would have them with their menus on them, and maybe some of the other stores would have them every once in a while when they have a sale.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Thank you.
Mr. Baldwin: Your welcome.
Ms. Duello: Commissioner Pourzan, I wanted to add a statement regarding the maintenance. We have a mechanism in our ordinance regarding keeping signs in good repair. Of course we never know if 5-Star's going to be at Parker Square the whole time, if there is a change of hands, there is already a mechanism in our ordinance for that.
Commissioner McKaige: Just a couple of other, the new stanchions as I will describe them going up on FM 1171, are they internally lit signs, are they going to have internal lighting, back lighting?
Mr. Baldwin: No, I do not believe they are internally lit, that is a very good question. My understanding is, they would be lit from the ground up, because there is no internally lit signs allowed in Parker Square, except on the...yea...
Commissioner McKaige: I just wanted to make sure we weren't changing it...okay, got it. The second is probably just confusion because this has gone through a couple of iterations. In our package, there is reference to a spreadsheet, which demonstrates differences, what exists, what is new.
Mr. Baldwin: Yes sir.
Commissioner McKaige: It's labeled "Attachment 7", but in our narrative it says "Attachment 8", am I on the right...
Mr. Baldwin: That is the one I prepared, I don't know, I didn't label it as the attachment.
Commissioner McKaige: Okay, that's okay, and I could see how it could happen, in that document, I have a question on Project sign standard "B"...
Mr. Baldwin: "B", Project Sculpture?
Commissioner McKaige: Yes, it indicates no change to the project sculpture.
Mr. Baldwin: Correct.
Commissioner McKaige: Tell me again about the statue and the brick entry feature.
Mr. Baldwin: Okay, the statue, if, did you get a copy of the full standards?
Commissioner McKaige: Yes.
Mr. Baldwin: It's Project...it's sign "B", now Daniel Parker, we'd still like the ability to put Daniel somewhere, we are not sure where, but if we don't keep it in, then if we wanted to put him in later, we would have to come in and amend our regulations to do it.
Commissioner McKaige: Okay that explains why it says no change.
Mr. Baldwin: Right.
Commissioner McKaige: Got it.
Mr. Baldwin: I didn't want you to come across and wonder why he was here and not referenced, but he will not go on Town property, he will not go in the park, he will stay on, there was concern that we would dump a statue of someone you didn't know in your park and we won't do that.
Commissioner McKaige: Okay, I thought he might look good under the fountain. Thank you.
Mr. Baldwin: Okay, are there any more questions on the project signs?
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Just one more quick question.
Mr. Baldwin: Yes.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: On the directional signs, on number "C".
Mr. Baldwin: Yes.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Are there existing ones out there right now, cause I was out there last week and I got lost and I was thinking maybe they didn't have directional signs.
Mr. Baldwin: They are not out there yet, because they are not allowed in our development yet.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: That's what I thought, thank you.
Mr. Baldwin: We will get them up very soon, because you are not the only one that gets lost. That goes back to, parking is in the back and you do not know where you are going, to get to the front. Okay the next set is the office signs, the changes deal mostly with Building 700; that has the theatre in it and it's a unique building for offices as you can see from the architecture. In the regulations, most of every office tenant that holds more than 4,500 square feet of office space is technically allowed to have an office sign. No one has one yet, but they technically could and they were supposed to go right here, according to the sign standards. Well you see if you did that, you have the columns that comes through, it would be very awkward. So what we are asking for is, to treat this building a little different, instead of having our office signs here, they go right here on either side of the door. So they frame the door, instead of being rectangular they are square, or smaller rectangles and they go on either side of the door. We are allowed two on each side. The second change is to allow event banners on Building 700, which would go right near the other columns and announce they are having a play or a concert or something. It adds a festive touch to it. I believe that is the changes in the office signs.
Chairman Hollingshad: Would you go back to the previous one? That is identified as U.1, our package summary I think is referring to the same thing but it says U.3. I couldn't find the picture in the back.
Mr. Baldwin: I don't have a U.3, if I did that, I apologize I must have...let's see, to be honest with you Commissioner, I have not seen your packet.
Chairman Hollingshad: The U.3 is on Page 5 of the, staff's...
Mr. Baldwin: Yea, it says U.3, there is no U.3, there are U and U.1, so you might want to get that, do you see it on Page 5, Kathy, Lisa, get that fixed. I think that at one time there might have been a U.3.
Ms. Duello: Yes, at one time, there was a U.3 and I apologize. I believe in their standards, that what they proposed it is a U.1 and it is correct.
Mr. Baldwin: Just so you know, staff has been working with us for a long time on this and they have gone above and beyond. I think we started working on this in March of last year, so it has taken us a while. They have put us through...and made sure that we understood what we were asking for, so if the numbering is kind of off, I apologize. Do you have any questions on office sign standards?
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Just real quickly, the signs themselves, will they be white backgrounds, or are they going to by like a clear acrylic that comes out from the stone or...
Mr. Baldwin: It is not specifically called out, my sense is they would be either a metal or a stone sign, but they would have to be approved by both our representative, and the Town of Flower Mound. They would not be internally lit, since lit signs are not available, allowed. Okay, it says, "...fabricated aluminum sign panels with paint finish..." neon is not permitted, and you are allowed two, 5' x 7' panels on each column. Anything else on the office signs? Okay the next ones are the retail signs. There seems to be a lot of changes here, but their very minor, just a lot of them. These are the signs that face the gazebo; they are the ones on the retail side. Each retail tenant is allowed either a primary sign, which we will talk about, a canopy sign, or a transom sign. You have one of each of those, plus a blade sign and then painting in the windows, okay. That hasn't changed at all, that has been approved. What has changed, on the retail sign banners, it use to be that the banners were 18" tall, we have changed that to 24". The letters could be 10" tall, and we have changed that to 12". That goes throughout on the three types of signs. So, you will have several diagrams showing what has changed, but that is it. We have gone from 18" to 24" on the total sign band and that would be the area from here, and then from 10" to 12" on the height of the letters. This just shows it on a side detail on what it looks like.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Now are you going to change the existing signs that are already up there or they going to...
Mr. Baldwin: They would be allowed to change if they want to pay to do it, but I don't think anybody will come in and do it.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Okay.
Mr. Baldwin: Here it is with the transom. This is your neon sign, now these must be turned off at night. Again the area has been amended to allow, let me just double check to make sure I know, don't misspeak, the only changes here was the color. It use to have a pallet of six neon colors you could use, that has bee removed, you can now use whatever colors that you want. You can use no more than three colors and they have to be approved by the graphics representative. Canopy options, you are allowed to have a canopy of 12 square feet of a logo right now. What we have asked is that it could either be 4' x 3' or 2' x 6', that size has not increased, just the dimensions have changed. You have two different options, it use to be, I think you could just do a 4' x 3'. We are allowing arched canopies now where you did not have them before, again 12 square feet, no more, in the logo. The halo lit letters; you can go 18 to 24 inches on the sign band, 10 to 12 inches on the height of the letters. Here is the detail on that detail. Now the bay window option; again 18 to 24 inches on the band, 10 to 12 inches on the letter. If you have noticed on the bay windows, they are like on sticks. You don't see many of them out there but when the golf place was out there, each letter was on a stick, and that is how we deal with the bay windows are our post. Building 500, it is kind of an odd duck too since it is the big gym and it has been specifically designed for the gym. Along with a gym you have the "Gym Kids" in there, that is kind of an accessory use, and there is a juice place in there that is a accessory use. We are allowing them to have their own signs as secondary tenants, since it is a big building and they take up a lot of space in it. Our proposal is to allow them to have secondary tenant signs there, and the primary tenant signs there. On the side, you get the primary tenant, so it would be seen if you come to the gym. C 2 is just the canopy option. If they decided to use canopies instead of signs against the wall, that is what it would look like.
Now at some point, the two triangular lots that are on either side of the gazebo, one north and one south, there are proposals to put buildings there. Those are the last of the buildings that would be built in Parker Square. What we are proposing is to allow the retail tenants, or the restaurants, to have their name on the outside of the building. You could see it as you drive down FM 1171. When these buildings are in place, you won't be able to see any of the other signs in Parker Square, these would be the only signs. You would be able to get glimpses of it as you drive by, and you can see avenues as you go in through the gazebo, but when these two buildings are in place, they are mirror images of one another. These would be the only retail signs that you would actually see as you drive down FM 1171. Here is the option if they use canopies rather than attach it to the walls. Now the rear building sign goes back to the Commissioners ability, and my ability not to find the building where you are going. Right now we have no provision to put signs on the back of the buildings saying this is where Mi Cocina is, so what we are proposing is to allow us to put signs on the back saying this is where the signs are. That's it for those signs.
In the retail signage; some of the text was removed to list what the acceptable and unacceptable signs are, they are clearly spelled out there. The fabrication has been the acceptable, unacceptable signs have been combined so now instead of four separate sections, there are now two. Owners' representatives and changes use to be the other firm we worked at, that was changed throughout. Sign review is now done at no charge to the tenants. Acceptable locations for primary tenant signs have been detailed to let the tenant know where the signs are permitted. It use to be just give us your best shot and we will tell you whether or not you like it. We figured we would give them; tell them where they are permitted, to help them do it right the first time. The format, fabrication, colors, sign, we use to tell what fonts they can use, you know what the letters have to look like, now we are suggesting what letters they can use, but are opening up a little bit. As long as they are acceptable to our sign representative and to the Town, that is fine with us. That was just a bit too restrictive. An unacceptable color section has been revised, they no longer prohibit primary colors, but again, any colors have to be approved. There was a complete section on door, windows, and interiors, on the inside; we took it out because those are really landlord issues. Those are signs you could only see when you are inside the office portion of the building and it just did not seem appropriate here. Those are the changes, I'm here to answer any questions or if you want me to go back over anything, I will be happy to do that.
Questions and Answers
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I just have a quick question on the sandwich signs, I guess that is what they are called, the ones that are...
Mr. Baldwin: Yea, sandwich boards.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: Yea those. Will they only pertain to restaurants or will all tenants be able to use those?
Mr. Baldwin: Right now, it is written that all retail tenants are allowed to have them. My sense and Jim Doussard's sense is that the restaurants will be the ones to use them the most, to advertise what is on their menus.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I guess my only concern is that you will have everybody out there with these little sandwich boards.
Mr. Baldwin: I think that was staff's concern too, and maybe if you think it's appropriate to limit them to either a type of use, or no more than "X" number can be on one stretch of sidewalk, or in front of a building. Again, I think it gives a good urban feel and I think it is pedestrian friendly. I don't think everybody will use them, but if you think it is appropriate to put some sort of limitations on it, we can do that.
Commissioner McKaige: I just had a clarification for me please; the subject is transom signs, the neon change. All that is being changed was widening the palette, more color selection, but limiting the choices, pick any three. No other spec. change with respect to size or location.
Mr. Baldwin: Correct...right...no, size it use to be that you could pick from three of these six colors, now you can pick three of whatever colors you want. You can only pick three and they all have to be approved so they're not too garish.
Commissioner McKaige: Got it, thank you.
Chairman Hollingshad: Is there anything else? Thank you Mr. Baldwin.
Mr. Baldwin: Thank you very much.
Staff Presentation
Lisa Duello, Director, Environmental Health Services
I just had a few closing comments. As the applicant mentioned, staff does not recommend the sandwich boards. We believe there will be safety issues, and we believe there will be a proliferation of signs within Parker Square. There was also the concern that we have other shopping centers with large pedestrian ways, and there may be request for those signs to go out there too. We recommend approval with the omission of the sandwich boards.
Questions and Answers
Chairman Hollingshad: Does this come from prior bad experiences.
Ms. Duello: Not really, no, we just thought that the sign package that they proposed, especially the grand opening and all the special event type signs are a great idea. I don't know if you noticed what they have out there now, you know the banners that are out there; I think this will really add to that. However, we felt that and quite a few staff members, we discussed it and we felt that people, it is a pedestrian way, and that they can put signage in their windows if they want if there are specials and we just didn't feel that it was necessary.
Commissioner McKaige: Would staff be more comfortable if we limited it to restaurants only and perhaps one discretionary per building. If the concern is proliferation and having the...are you more agreeable to something like that, or you just don't want them.
Ms. Duello: Yea that is an option. There is a little bit of concern about other shopping centers noticing those types of signs. We had situations at grocery stores where they put sandwich boards out front and we have had to tell them to take them down. There maybe some feed back from other retail within the Town, well Parker Square has sandwich boards and sometimes it is hard for them to understand they have special sign standards. They notice things like that, because they like to advertise for specials and so, there is a possibility that we could get some negative feedback on that, but I really don't know for sure, an option would be to put a limit on it.
Commissioner McKaige: Okay, thank you, it helps us. The other thought I have is the spreadsheet summary is an excellent tool. I fully appreciate how it got to where it is, it has November 2004 on it and it is obviously a product of many iterations. What I suggest you do is put this as one of the first attachments before the big ones, so a reader can just go right through with the presentation as presented. I was able to check off each one; if I had an issue or question I could do it. If I needed to know more, then I could delve in; it's a very helpful tool.
Ms. Duello: I apologize for that, well Rob created that and it was, when it was, I apologize for it not being numbered correctly, it was one of those unresolved issues we had a couple of versions of it with all of our comments so...
Commissioner McKaige: I can understand. I found it very helpful and I think it wound up tucked, it is a two pager, and it wound up tucked between the old standards and the new so it wound up between an inch and a half and an inch and a half of other papers. It tends to get lost, but it is a great tool and I would just suggest that for clarity, just put it up front and tune up the dates, it is very helpful. Thank you.
Ms. Duello: Okay, I'll take your suggestion, okay. Any other questions?
Chairman Hollingshad: Thank you.
Open Public Hearing
Questions and Answers None
In Favor
Chairman Hollingshad: I've got a card from Mr. Baldwin acknowledging that he is in favor. Do you have anything that you would like to add? Okay. Is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor?
In Opposition None
Close Public Hearing
Commission Deliberation
Commissioner Martin: I'll jump out on the sandwich board deal because I think that's really the biggest hang-up in any of them. I think I'm okay with them if we limited them just to restaurants. I think it is a good idea. As far as the retail, I think this sign package really has helped the retail part of it. They have the ability to advertise when they have a sale coming and that sort of thing. But a daily special for what kind of special dessert they might have, or a coffee they are offering, or that sort of thing, I think that is a pretty cool idea and would help draw customers. That way I don't think we would have the saturation of those sandwich boards. Those are just my thoughts anyway.
Commissioner Goss: I agree with you, I think it takes some of the sterile environment out of just a concrete sidewalk, and kind of adds to the ambiance, the urban feel like you say. So I would support that as a restaurants, restaurants or food items, the Gelato place you know might have their special of the day out there.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: It would, it would give a nice quaint feel to it and the fact that it is pedestrian I would hope that it wouldn't set a precedent with other establishments in Town. At the risk of sounding cliché or, because this is totally intended to be a pun, but I think this is a "Sign", this whole package is a sign of a change of times. From coming from 1999, it is evident that there were changes that had to be made, so any business that is successful will take assessments and make changes, and I think we should go down that path here tonight. It looks good.
Commissioner McKaige: I'm also in agreement with limiting it to restaurants. I want it to be fairer and put one to each building, I am fine with not doing that. I also notice in other places where I've seen them, typically they make chalk boards out of them rather than a piece of plywood and they get very artistic. They add a little flavor to the thing, I think that is what Ellen was getting at, and so I support that.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I have to agree with what everybody has said here. I think it just adds a little quaintness...I've been to New York and other places where you walk down and you see them on the little side cafes, where people are sitting outside, and they've got them there. I also thought that maybe just have them out during business hours and then take them in, in the evenings when they would be closed.
Commissioner Drescher: I have to say that I feel the same way; the sandwich boards are not a problem with me. I'd go one step further and maybe the non-food stores, during very special events like the Flower Mound Celebration in May or something when everything is special, there might be an exception, but definitely like we have it.
Commissioner Martin: I don't know Karl, I mean there is already identifiers for those that we've fixed really with the banners on the gazebos and that sort of thing that should help with those things.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: I also want to add along those lines for the banner, they would obviously want to be noticed, but I don't know if I'm in favor of primary colors in the permanent signs. I know we will have that choice of the three, I would like to see it more of a distinct classic look within that whole establishment, the whole strip, the Parker Square. I would just hate to see making all these types of steps forward and then have that, like he used the term garish, I'll us obnoxious, okay. I just think it would be a nice classy touch, and we have such a high aesthetic standard here in Town already.
Commissioner Martin: Do you want to address that?
Mr. Baldwin: For the record, our architectural standards person would rather not see a lot of primary colors too, he has a good eye and he doesn't like them. Certain tenants like to have some of them, so we heard from our tenants that we need to have the ability to do it, but Jim really tries to discourage people from doing it.
Commissioner Martin: I'm sure that part of the problem is that some of the these establishments, while we don't have any national chains or anything, some of them have invested in trade marks, and you know they are copyrighted logos, they paid for it so they want to use it.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: But then on the other hand you have a company like Home Depot who was willing to meet our standards so.
Chairman Hollingshad: I would just like to add on the sandwich board issue, my only concern is seeing sandwich boards out there with a bunch of sand bags piled around them. I would suggest that we also include a provision that they are brought inside during inclement weather.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Define inclement.
Chairman Hollingshad: Well the intent will be to keep them from blowing around.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: (in-audible)
Chairman Hollingshad: I don't think it is that hard because the shops aren't that big. Somebody ought to be paying attention to what's coming out in front. Also for restaurants, there is going to be people coming in and out all the time, so if there is a change in the weather, you know the front door will be swinging open and swinging shut a lot. You know when that happens, when we get a lot of wind going in you can tell when that is happening, when the rain kicks in and the thunder storms and you know when that is happening.
Commissioner Walker: Mr. Chairman, I noticed that in some communities sandwich board signs have a sort of a laminated metal bar across the bottom of the sign, not sand bags, to create uniformity, so one doesn't have sand bags the one next to it does, one had three, one had two. I don't know if the Town, the staff had looked into some of the, or the applicant has looked into alternatives with things like sand bags are more rudimentary weights.
Mr. Baldwin: To be honest with you, we have not, but I will find out before we go to Town Council how to anchor these babies and make sure they don't blow around and to keep them uniform. The reason we did all this work for the signs was to have a uniform look, something that we control, and you are right, sand bags laying around is probably not the best way to go about doing this.
Chairman Hollingshad: Notwithstanding that, we do get some powerful winds coming through and those things act like big sails. I would not want anybody getting hurt because a sudden gust comes up and blows it into somebody's kid. Does anybody else have anything?
Commissioner Martin moved to approve ZPD 01-04, an amendment to Exhibit "B," Development Standards of PD-24, Planned Development District No. 24, adopting new sign standards for Parker Square by replacing the "Parker Square Signage Standards, August 23, 1999" with the "Parker Square Sign Standards 2004," except that the following sign is denied:
1. Identifier O - Sandwich Boards for all tenants except those related to food service.
Discussion on the Motion
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Did we want to add a condition on how many establishments, how many restaurants, how many food services would permit one or do you want to just leave a blanket every food service.
Commissioner Martin: That is my motion.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: Okay.
Chairman Hollingshad: So do I understand that to be a limit of one per tenant.
Commissioner Martin: Yes, one per food service tenant, as detailed in Identifier O, rather than just say - where I'm trying to go with it is cause it says in Identifier O, one per tenant. I'm saying for just those tenants that have or related to food service and I'm thinking we might be able to fix it like the applicant said before Town Council in terms of the bracing needs or whatever weighting or whatever to make sure that they are...so, I'm taking it at his word there rather than put it into the motion.
Doug Powell, Assistant Executive Director, Development and Environmental Services
Mr. Chairman if I may, just so you are aware, the staff recommendation, the number is actually incorrect. It is noticed correctly, it is actually ZPD 11-03. I noticed the agenda is right, but the motion....
Commissioner Martin: But just the recommendation is incorrect Doug.
Mr. Powell: Yes.
Commissioner Martin: So my motion will reflect, move to approve ZPD 11-03.
Commissioner McKaige: I would like to amend the motion.
Ed Voss, Town Attorney
We need a second first.
Chairman Hollingshad: We need a second first.
Commissioner Goss: I'll second the motion made.
Chairman Hollingshad: The motion is by Commissioner Martin and second by Commissioner Goss.
Commissioner McKaige: Move to amend the motion.
Commissioner McKaige move to approve ZPD 11-03 an amendment to Exhibit "B," Development Standards of PD-24, Planned Development District No. 24, adopting new sign standards for Parker Square by replacing the "Parker Square Signage Standards, August 23, 1999" with the "Parker Square Sign Standards 2004." Modified to permit properly fastened sandwich signs at food service tenants only.
Commissioner Martin: I'll accept that, that is pretty much what I said.
Commissioner McKaige: I am just trying to get the fastened there so it can be kicked around a little.
Chairman Hollingshad: Okay, Commissioner McKaige has offered an amendment to the motion that, as I see it, does two things, it corrects the reference to ZPD 11-03 and adds a provision that the means of stabilizing the sandwich boards needs to be provided in the final amendment. Commissioner McKaige has made the amendment and we need a second on the amendment.
Mr. Voss: Then after that we will need approval from the movement and the first second.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I'll second.
Commissioner Martin: I'll accept the amendment.
Commissioner Goss: I accept it also.
Mr. Powell: Mr. Chairman, If I may, what I heard Mr. McKaige, he mentioned "sandwich signs", I think the reference is to "sandwich board" signs.
Commissioner McKaige: As noted, "sandwich board" signs.
Vice-Chair Pourzan: I accept that as well.
Chairman Hollingshad: Okay, so we now have the amendment by Commissioner McKaige, has been seconded by Commissioner Pourzan, is there any discussion to the amendment. Hearing none, Sally would you please call the roll.
VOTE ON THE MOTION
AYES: Depperschmidt, Martin, McKaige, Pourzan, Goss, Drescher
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
Chairman Hollingshad: The amendment carries 6-0, so now we have on the table the amended motion for discussion. We voted on the amendment if I am following this correctly.
Mr. Voss: That's fine, that's good, now we need to vote on the amended motion.
Chairman Hollingshad: So now we need to vote on the amended motion.
Mr. Voss: We just voted on the amendment before. This is fine so we need to go...
Chairman Hollingshad: Is there any discussion on the amended motion.
Commissioner Martin: I'm sorry, I am terribly confused as to what we are doing.
Commissioner Depperschmidt: There was an amendment, and then there was an amended motion.
Mr. Voss: First, you voted on the amendment, now we are going to vote on the motion as amended.
Commissioner Martin: Who's motion did we vote on the first time? McKaige's right.
Mr. Voss: McKaige's.
Commissioner Martin: Okay, who's are we voting on this time?
Mr. Voss: Yours.
Commissioner Martin: But I accepted his amendment, so why do we go...
Mr. Voss: There are two ways of doing it, but the Chair has chosen to do it this way, so this is to vote on your motion, now that it has been amended by the approved amendment.
Commissioner Martin: Okay, but we are not doing an either or, is what I'm saying, we are doing it both...okay, I thought that choice was made.
Chairman Hollingshad: For clarity the motion has been amended to correct the reference to ZPD 11-03 and add Commissioner McKaige's language, it retains all of your original motion.
Commissioner Martin: That is what we just voted.
Chairman Hollingshad: No.
Commissioner Martin: Yes, that is what he just said.
Chairman Hollingshad: No, we voted on the amendment, now we have an amended motion and the motion is as you stated it previously with the changes that, of ZPD 11-03 and the provision to stabilize the sandwich boards.
Commissioner Martin: Okay.
Chairman Hollingshad: Is there any discussion? Call the roll.
VOTE ON THE AMENDED MOTION
AYES: Drescher, Goss, Pourzan, McKaige, Martin, Depperschmidt
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
Chairman Hollingshad: Motion carries 6-0.
H. ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner McKaige made a motion to adjourn at 7:40 p.m. on Monday, February 9, 2004, and Vice-Chair Pourzan seconded the motion. All were in favor, and the motion passed unanimously.
TOWN OF FLOWER MOUND, TEXAS
DOUGLAS S. POWELL, AICP
Assistant Executive Director
Development & Environmental Services
ATTEST:
SALLY BYRD, Secretary